PDA

View Full Version : annoyed with the police



Prozaneki
10-May-2011, 08:36 PM
Hi all was out on a ride today and the following happened - i was half way thru my ride and was coming down a long steep hill, as i approached the junction at the bottom which is opposite a school entrance and 4x4 parked on my side of the road decided to pull out into the road without looking and caused me to slam the brakes on and swerve around him as i locked the back wheel he heard me and slammed his brakes on to avoid wiping me out.

There were 2 cars waiting at the junction so i stopped behind them and the jeep pulled up next to me and the driver gives me a stinking look as if it was my fault, so i politly said "check your mirrors mate before you pull out, you nearly hit me" he replied "what, i stopped to let you past" i replied "no you didn't you almost hit me if i hadn't swerved you would of hit me and i'd of been in a world of trouble" he then says "don't talk [****] will you" so after a few heated words as to who was right and wrong he says "oi come here, i'll smash your fooking face in now" i laughed and politly told him to step out of the jeep, anyway he drove off, but as all this was happening there was a police officer in a car 2 cars back and she had seen it all, she pulls up along side me at the junction and says "oi pull up around the corner i want a word with you" so around the corner i went, she then tells me that i was going too fast down the hill ?????????? um im on a gary fisher mountain bike not a gsxr, as this copper is reading me the riot act which by now im starting to get really pissed off as i can't get a word in edge ways, some random guy walks around the corner and says to the copper "why are you having a go at him it was the driver of the 4x4's fault i seen it all, the copper then does a complete u-turn and starts saying sorry to me and she was only looking out for me ?????????

This is why the large majority of coppers that are complete arseholes with a power trip spoil it for the small minority of good ones.

I did ask her before we parted ways "If the 4x4 had hit me, who would you be talking too right now, me or the driver ?"

she replied "ok point taken, sorry and have a safe ride"

I'd just like to know everyone's thoughts really coz i was fuming over the whole thing.

m65
10-May-2011, 08:58 PM
Perhaps from her POV it looked like your fault, at least she stood corrected by a better witness. Most fuzz would not have backed down.

Check out these fuzz going OTT on a drunk.
Guess who has been issued with a new toy.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kP2Lp5ql-Xg

B1Gdave
10-May-2011, 08:59 PM
I don't see you're issue with the police, she has clearly apologised for having a go at you? Does that make the police useless? You can't judge the police service as a whole on one or two peoples behaviour.
People are very quick to criticise what is a very tough job. Not helped by people filling forums anti police rubbish.
At the end of the day they are here to protect you and are not given an easy time of it.
Sorry to rant, it's just a topic I feel strongly about

fredmundo
10-May-2011, 09:01 PM
Sounds to me like the pc didn't see the whole thing and decided to try to talk to you to calm you. Still at least you got the apology when corrected by the witness.

Prozaneki
10-May-2011, 09:06 PM
fair comment dave but if she was doing her job properly then she should of gone after the driver for undue care and attention, as i said if he had hit me it would of been a completley different situation.

Im not anti police i know a few that are mates of mine and even they agree that there are alot of nobheads in the force, i have alot of respect for them as an ex serving soldier i know what it's like to work in a pressure job.

Im just saying that knowing that i was in the right she was quick enough taking me around the corner and ranting on at me until a witness backed me up, guess it was just frustrating at the time.

Prozaneki
10-May-2011, 09:08 PM
fred the thing is she didnt try and calm anything and i wasnt ranting, but she got out of her car with a major power trip and as good as ripped my head off until the witness came over.

B1Gdave
10-May-2011, 09:10 PM
Perhaps from her POV it looked like your fault, at least she stood corrected by a better witness. Most fuzz would not have backed down.

Check out these fuzz going OTT on a drunk.
Guess who has been issued with a new toy.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kP2Lp5ql-Xg



All looks a little crazy, and the punches look excessive, but the fact is, that we know nothing about the man on the floor. How many people may he have seriously injured or even killed before? Possession of a weapon? Previous for concealing blades/firearms? Previously publicised intentions to do harm to police officers or otherwise? You can't see that in the video

Prozaneki
10-May-2011, 09:10 PM
ive changed the heading maybe fooking police was a little harsh, but annoyed most definate.

B1Gdave
10-May-2011, 09:18 PM
fair comment dave but if she was doing her job properly then she should of gone after the driver for undue care and attention, as i said if he had hit me it would of been a completley different situation.

Im not anti police i know a few that are mates of mine and even they agree that there are alot of nobheads in the force, i have alot of respect for them as an ex serving soldier i know what it's like to work in a pressure job.

Im just saying that knowing that i was in the right she was quick enough taking me around the corner and ranting on at me until a witness backed me up, guess it was just frustrating at the time.



Thats fair, I do see you're point. Guess we all make mistakes from time to time. Some just more publicly than others! But I guess the important thing is that she was able to change tone?

Prozaneki
10-May-2011, 09:20 PM
very true maybe most wouldnt of backed down, im just glad the witness came and backed me up as we would still be there now disagreeing lol.

greeneye
10-May-2011, 09:22 PM
Perhaps from her POV it looked like your fault, at least she stood corrected by a better witness. Most fuzz would not have backed down.

Check out these fuzz going OTT on a drunk.
Guess who has been issued with a new toy.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kP2Lp5ql-Xg



All looks a little crazy, and the punches look excessive, but the fact is, that we know nothing about the man on the floor. How many people may he have seriously injured or even killed before? Possession of a weapon? Previous for concealing blades/firearms? Previously publicised intentions to do harm to police officers or otherwise? You can't see that in the video



are you a police officer????

im just curious as to why you trying to justify there fcuk ups!!!

B1Gdave
10-May-2011, 09:26 PM
Haha, not long ago I got taken out at a junction by some dipshit driver. They also blamed me. We don't get it easy do we?!

B1Gdave
10-May-2011, 09:31 PM
Umm... Not quite, I'm a PCSO.

steve_sordy
10-May-2011, 09:36 PM
I'm sure I saw a reference in the Sunday Times to early discussions on a proposed new traffic law. Basically it states that in any collision between a bicycle and a motor vehicle, the motor vehicle will automatically be deemed to be at fault.

I can see that the point is to frighten all drivers into taking more care and thus reduce the number of cyclists killed on the road. But if implemented this would be a step too far and would go against natural justice. What if the cyclist ploughs into a stationary car! Also, did anyone see that video on the forum a week or so ago of couriers racing through the streets of London (nutters every single one!).

Did anyone else see the reference?

gorehound
10-May-2011, 09:41 PM
I'm sure I saw a reference in the Sunday Times to early discussions on a proposed new traffic law. Basically it states that in any collision between a bicycle and a motor vehicle, the motor vehicle will automatically be deemed to be at fault.

I can see that the point is to frighten all drivers into taking more care and thus reduce the number of cyclists killed on the road. But if implemented this would be a step too far and would go against natural justice. What if the cyclist ploughs into a stationary car! Also, did anyone see that video on the forum a week or so ago of couriers racing through the streets of London (nutters every single one!).

Did anyone else see the reference?



I was under the impression that was already law as of the 1st of january this rear.

B1Gdave
10-May-2011, 09:52 PM
I'm sure I saw a reference in the Sunday Times to early discussions on a proposed new traffic law. Basically it states that in any collision between a bicycle and a motor vehicle, the motor vehicle will automatically be deemed to be at fault.

I can see that the point is to frighten all drivers into taking more care and thus reduce the number of cyclists killed on the road. But if implemented this would be a step too far and would go against natural justice. What if the cyclist ploughs into a stationary car! Also, did anyone see that video on the forum a week or so ago of couriers racing through the streets of London (nutters every single one!).

Did anyone else see the reference?



I was under the impression that was already law as of the 1st of january this rear.



I dont think so, having recently been involved in a reported collision, it was investigated as every other RTC is, the fact that I was on a bike and he was driving a car was irrelevant, it just so happened to be his fault.
There are offences, interestingly, of (don't quote me on the offence wording!) furious and wanton cycling! Who knew?!

m65
10-May-2011, 09:57 PM
the punches look excessive



It was not the friendly dig in the ribs which was the most shocking, but the guy with the tazer zapping him for a second time. By that time he seemed to be resisting arrest as much as a beached dolphin.

If I was a police officer in charge of a potentially deadly instrument...



















































































...I would have done exactly the same :D

SteveMTB
10-May-2011, 10:17 PM
I have zero respect for coppers all I see is brutality I have never watched "cops" on TV and thought to myself hmm there doing a nice job, they murder people and get away with it and beat up defenseless drunks as in video above, they think their so macho when it takes 5 to subdue a drunken idiot and they tazer him when hes already down lol, A threat to them er no dont think so you dont really need to be there to see thats way over the top.

Back to the original topic yes they would blame you im surprised you were apologized to and your lucky it was a lady copper, most likely if they had been 2 male coppers they would have either shot you or tazered you then beat you up and charged YOU for assualt.

I once videoed 2 coppers pepper spaying a 15yr old while he was on the floor with his hands behind his back, when asked for my phone I promptly told them er no then he tried to rugby tackle me to the ground where I then proceeded to elbow him in the back and punch him in the ribs and done a runner they caught up with me a short while after where 2 more coppers decided to exact revenge on my defense moves and I was incarcerated and phone confiscated, after only 2 weeks they dropped my case as I involved Police complaints and the outcome was 2 coppers had a written warning for misuse of pepper spray and retrained and my memory card mysteriously disappeared and the witness that saw me being beaten withdrew their statement against the police which caused the police to drop the assault I made on them. I think I was justified in defending myself and would do it again even the PCC person who was a copper for 30 years said there are to many young hot headed coppers rushed into the job and they need a kick up the arse most of them. There was not 1 copper in that whole indecent that thought they were doing wrong!!!

B1Gdave
10-May-2011, 10:40 PM
All you see is brutality?! Nevermind the amount of lives that are saved as a direct result of police work? the amount of missing people, children, elderly, vulnerable people? The officers that put their lives on the line when some fool brandishes a firearm? The officer that is forced to make a judgment call at that incident and discharge his firearm to prevent the devastation of more lives, who is instantly suspended and investigated for murder, despite acting with honest intentions to save the lives of fellow colleagues and members of the public? What about those that have to knock on someone's door and tell them their child has died in a traffic collision? The police regularly apprehend thieves, those that decide to help themselves to your property in your home while you sleep? Those that are willing to beat an old lady And take her pension to find their drug habit, who serves justice upon them? Quite frankly the points you make are unfounded and ill researched. Open your eyes and see what's really happening before you slate the entire organisation and every one of it's employees.

fredmundo
11-May-2011, 07:46 AM
Without wanting to get too involved in the police public profile argument. I think that most do try to do their best, the is that being with a very public role it very obvious when mistakes are made...
My experiences have been mixed, each time its been down to the individual involved. Thankfully I've not been involved in any serious incidents.

With regard to the rules regarding cyclists involved in RTAs, I'm not sure that it went through but it was certainly suggested. It's also not quite as explicit as steve suggested, I thought that it was that currently it was up to the cyclist to prove the fault lies with the driver. The suggestion was that the car driver should prove their innocence. They are normally fully investigated too determine the cause and when fault may lie, the above ruling really only applies when the cause is unclear.

MartyCmartyDo
11-May-2011, 09:47 AM
"TASER TASER TASER!!!" = "SMALL PENIS SMALL PENIS SMALL PENIS!!!"

:D :D :D

Prozaneki
11-May-2011, 10:09 AM
Dave you also need to remember tho that although police officers do try and do a good job and some do put their lives on the line, they know exactly what they are getting into before they join and it's part of the job, just as was myself in the army when I served in Kosovo, Bosnia and Iraq.

There are some decent police officers out there and also alot that just pick up their pay each month and don't give a [****] about the job or the role they are supposed to be doing.

MTBLeague
11-May-2011, 10:38 AM
I'm sure I saw a reference in the Sunday Times to early discussions on a proposed new traffic law. Basically it states that in any collision between a bicycle and a motor vehicle, the motor vehicle will automatically be deemed to be at fault.



What happened to an unbiased and balanced view in all cases, we can't go as far as presumption of innocence on both parties as someone made a mistake, hopefully not intentionally.

Problem with the police is they as big Dave was pointing out have not an easy job, unfortunately the right tool for the job here is a blunt instrument, when we as normal law abiding people get caught up in this it does seem somewhat brutal.

Always 2 sides to every story, if people could be bothered or had time to listen and weigh up all evidence, the truth would come out.

steve_sordy
11-May-2011, 11:27 AM
Policemen are not supermen whose ranks are drawn from a different race. They are just like us. They are good, bad, kind, arrogant, selfish, generous, lazy and hard working. In fact they are exactly like us. Well, maybe not exactly; they do have recruitment standards that wean out the chaff. :)

However, they are trained and disciplined within a system to meet certain standards. And we have a right to expect them to perform to those standards. Especially as they have power over us.

But the police are, again, just like us. They are all too human, therefore they fail from time to time, lose their temper when provoked beyond endurance, and they can make bad judgements when stressed.

Unfortunately, most people only meet the police when they too are stressed and under pressure. The member of the public's judgement also is impaired by that stress and they may kick off as a consequence.

It can be hard I know (from personal experience), but give them a break! :) We would be far worse off without them!

B1Gdave
11-May-2011, 12:29 PM
Steve, you are so right. I guess that's what it all boils down to, we are all human. I suppose, there are a probably a few that think they are not, but we definitely are. And it's unfortunate that 95% of the mistakes that get made are in full public view, and the public are very quick to criticise, I know that from experience!!

SteveMTB
11-May-2011, 06:32 PM
I dont argue I just mutter yes and no and agree, I hate arguing its a waste of oxygen I prefer to agree when I know im right than waste time proving it.

It is unfortunate that 99% of the publicity is bad but then NO copper should shoot or tazer innocent people, local to me armed police busted through a flat door and shot a naked man in his bed, it was later discovered they got the wrong flat. The family are still trying to seek justice for this murder.

I could be here all night writing bad stories about police brutality and probably a few incidences of good behavior, but I think the public has made its mind up and its up to the police to make us all change our views, maybe some etiquette courses instead of how to restrain and immobilize people would help, but for now I refuse to pi55 on one while their on fire.

steve_sordy
11-May-2011, 06:53 PM
....I could be here all night writing bad stories about police brutality and probably a few incidences of good behavior, but I think the public has made its mind up and its up to the police to make us all change our views, maybe some etiquette courses instead of how to restrain and immobilize people would help, but for now I refuse to pi55 on one while their on fire.



To an extent I agree with you. I believe that the police as a whole need to engage a new PR team, because they seem to be losing the goodwill of the general public. They are busy using up the large reservoir of goodwill built up in previous years. Sooner or later, it will all be gone. And then where will we be - France! :(

Years ago, my boss told me "you are not who you really are, you are who you are perceived to be".
Sadly, the Police are no longer perceived as well as they used to be (when arguably their actual behaviour was worse than it is now - remember all those fit ups, racist abuse, and the corruption cases?)

RedPanda
11-May-2011, 06:56 PM
I'm sure I saw a reference in the Sunday Times to early discussions on a proposed new traffic law. Basically it states that in any collision between a bicycle and a motor vehicle, the motor vehicle will automatically be deemed to be at fault.

I can see that the point is to frighten all drivers into taking more care and thus reduce the number of cyclists killed on the road. But if implemented this would be a step too far and would go against natural justice. What if the cyclist ploughs into a stationary car! Also, did anyone see that video on the forum a week or so ago of couriers racing through the streets of London (nutters every single one!).

Did anyone else see the reference?



Just in case you did not know this but if a pedestrian walks out in the road without looking and you hit them with your car it is you the motorist that is deemed at fault........even if you are not..........

If and when the motorist being at fault for any bicycle related incident becomes law I can see an increase in casualties.........because the motorist is allegedly never in the wrong even when they are..........

Karen (former clearer upper of motor incident carnage)

fredmundo
11-May-2011, 07:23 PM
The responsibility of blame should lie with the least vulnerable...
Lorry < car < motorbike < push bike < pedestrian

Unless of course a clear cause can't be found.

SteveMTB
11-May-2011, 07:30 PM
so if im bombing round a roundabout in the middle lane and a car pulls out in front of me and I crash into the side who is at fault as this happens so many times to me well nearly into the side its very close sometimes, a lot of motorists dont expect a bike to do 18mph average with 25-30mph on a straight.

Im yet to be "doored" or "hooked" although I nearly ended up on a bonnet the other day riding the SDW, so glad I slowed down before the corner.

Fartblood
11-May-2011, 07:32 PM
Dave you also need to remember tho that although police officers do try and do a good job and some do put their lives on the line, they know exactly what they are getting into before they join and it's part of the job, just as was myself in the army when I served in Kosovo, Bosnia and Iraq.

There are some decent police officers out there and also alot that just pick up their pay each month and don't give a [****] about the job or the role they are supposed to be doing.

Served in N.I, Germany, Cyprus, and a brief stint in Saudi during GW1, and stupidly decided that I hadn't given enough to society and joined the dibble. I don't mind risking my life for just cause, but not for eejuts who put themselves in harms way through stupidity or carelessness.

To be fair, as a car driver, motorcyclist, and a keen leisure and professionally trained cyclist, I can confirm there are legions of cyclists out there who don't give a **** about they way they ride and how that affects their own safety and other road users. We need to get our own house in order before we can start sniping at other groups.

I wasn't present, so can not comment on chummy's scenario, and if we're being really balanced the officer that was present isn't here to describe what they saw. What I can say is hazard perception and risk management is a basic part of what I teach, and the situation as described could have been deftly avoided if chummy had been perpetually asking himself "what if? what if?..."

"Right of way" etc is all well and good, but is small consolation to your family when you're dead. I've dealt with many RTA's involving cyclists, and a noteworthy proportion scream "THEY WERE IN THE WRONG, IT WAS MY RIGHT OF WAY" was they're being stretchered off, as if that's going to make the bones heal any quicker. Right of way etc isn't like Batfinks wings of steel, and is utterly meaningless when it comes to survival.

We should all be riding the road EXPECTING that sort of thing to happen, not being surprised when it does, and that's how we live to old age and our off-road wheelchairs with DT Swiss wheels!

fredmundo
11-May-2011, 08:11 PM
Good points there.

I do ride as if everyone else on the road is trying to knock me of my bike. Even if I have made direct eye contact with them I assume that they haven't seen me.
It has certainly helped me anticipate the people on the road and prevented a few injuries to myself.

I agree on the right of way issue not really counting when you are lying on the floor too.

I think that however shifting the default 'responsibility' as it were for accidents to motorists rather than cyclists might help to reduce the number of incidents on the road... Unless of course this leads to cyclists riding round acting like the own the roads.

greeneye
11-May-2011, 08:14 PM
Dave you also need to remember tho that although police officers do try and do a good job and some do put their lives on the line, they know exactly what they are getting into before they join and it's part of the job, just as was myself in the army when I served in Kosovo, Bosnia and Iraq.

There are some decent police officers out there and also alot that just pick up their pay each month and don't give a [****] about the job or the role they are supposed to be doing.

Served in N.I, Germany, Cyprus, and a brief stint in Saudi during GW1, and stupidly decided that I hadn't given enough to society and joined the dibble. I don't mind risking my life for just cause, but not for eejuts who put themselves in harms way through stupidity or carelessness.

To be fair, as a car driver, motorcyclist, and a keen leisure and professionally trained cyclist, I can confirm there are legions of cyclists out there who don't give a **** about they way they ride and how that affects their own safety and other road users. We need to get our own house in order before we can start sniping at other groups.

I wasn't present, so can not comment on chummy's scenario, and if we're being really balanced the officer that was present isn't here to describe what they saw. What I can say is hazard perception and risk management is a basic part of what I teach, and the situation as described could have been deftly avoided if chummy had been perpetually asking himself "what if? what if?..."

"Right of way" etc is all well and good, but is small consolation to your family when you're dead. I've dealt with many RTA's involving cyclists, and a noteworthy proportion scream "THEY WERE IN THE WRONG, IT WAS MY RIGHT OF WAY" was they're being stretchered off, as if that's going to make the bones heal any quicker. Right of way etc isn't like Batfinks wings of steel, and is utterly meaningless when it comes to survival.

We should all be riding the road EXPECTING that sort of thing to happen, not being surprised when it does, and that's how we live to old age and our off-road wheelchairs with DT Swiss wheels!



very well put matey.

Prozaneki
11-May-2011, 08:55 PM
That's all good and well and I'm very observant as a motor cycle rider that's had a few close calls I ride my mountain bike as if I'm on a motor bike, always looking for others that can't see me, the difference in this case was I was riding down a hill and a parked car didn't look and pulled out with me about 10ft back not giving me any notice at all, if i had been in a car or on a motor bike then I'm sure there would of been a collision as there were cars on-coming on the other side.

I'm far from anti police as said I have mates that are coppers and have no problem with them, I posted this mearly to see what other people thought.

B1Gdave
11-May-2011, 09:30 PM
I dont argue I just mutter yes and no and agree, I hate arguing its a waste of oxygen I prefer to agree when I know im right than waste time proving it.

It is unfortunate that 99% of the publicity is bad but then NO copper should shoot or tazer innocent people, local to me armed police busted through a flat door and shot a naked man in his bed, it was later discovered they got the wrong flat. The family are still trying to seek justice for this murder.

I could be here all night writing bad stories about police brutality and probably a few incidences of good behavior, but I think the public has made its mind up and its up to the police to make us all change our views, maybe some etiquette courses instead of how to restrain and immobilize people would help, but for now I refuse to pi55 on one while their on fire.



I'm sorry, but if you're talking about this video, how do you know this man is innocent? You don't know any more about this situation than what you can see, and there is going to be more to it than that. If there isn't, and I'm wrong, then I apologise, but I very much doubt that is the case.
I am very aware that the majority of publicity we see about the police is bad, do we maybe think that that's because a lot of our hard work goes unnoticed? I know for a fact that the majority of my hard work isn't publicised, and very rarely do I get any recognition at all, or even a thank you.
But regardless of this, or your perception of my work, I know, with a clear concience, that day to day I do the right thing, I make a difference, I save lives. Im the first to hold my hands up if I get it wrong, I'm human, it occasionally happens.
Let's just hope I never catch fire and require your piss to save me. At least I'd die knowing I've done the right thing.

greeneye
11-May-2011, 09:58 PM
I dont argue I just mutter yes and no and agree, I hate arguing its a waste of oxygen I prefer to agree when I know im right than waste time proving it.

It is unfortunate that 99% of the publicity is bad but then NO copper should shoot or tazer innocent people, local to me armed police busted through a flat door and shot a naked man in his bed, it was later discovered they got the wrong flat. The family are still trying to seek justice for this murder.

I could be here all night writing bad stories about police brutality and probably a few incidences of good behavior, but I think the public has made its mind up and its up to the police to make us all change our views, maybe some etiquette courses instead of how to restrain and immobilize people would help, but for now I refuse to pi55 on one while their on fire.



I'm sorry, but if you're talking about this video, how do you know this man is innocent? You don't know any more about this situation than what you can see, and there is going to be more to it than that.



it seems that you are indeed a police officer and a disgruntled one at that.

police do get bad press and thats mainly because bad press is good press, however, its seems we have all had our bad experience's where the ploice are concerened, i know i have but equaly i have had good experiences with the police.

it bothers me that you keep trying defend the police even where it seems obvious there wrong, i watch the said video and i see 4 or 5 officers angry and going way over the top with 1 man who is clearly just a drunk, it seems the majority of the on lookers are shocked at whats going on as does the woman who try's to stop the officer punching the man in the face and the officer with the tazor just looks like he is having great time.

SteveMTB
11-May-2011, 10:11 PM
That's all good and well and I'm very observant as a motor cycle rider that's had a few close calls I ride my mountain bike as if I'm on a motor bike, always looking for others that can't see me, the difference in this case was I was riding down a hill and a parked car didn't look and pulled out with me about 10ft back not giving me any notice at all, if i had been in a car or on a motor bike then I'm sure there would of been a collision as there were cars on-coming on the other side.



After reading this part I can get more of a picture of whats happened and can see how you were so pi55ed off with said car driver, me being me I would have tuted to myself and shook my head a bit and not approached the driver, but then my wife says im so laid back im horizontal lol, but on a bad day I might have exchanged a few vowels, but still regarding the police confrontation I would have listened (maybe yawned) to the verbal attack then when she shut up said my version in a calm manner and suggest as a paid servant of the public she should maybe pay more attention to the incident and if she did not quite see what had happened then seek witnesses herself and then question who was wrong.

And I see no law that says we cant belt down a hill at 30mph, most bikes nowadays have a more reliable and sharper braking system than cars!! Maybe we could test the stopping distance of a road bike compared to a car at 30mph ay :) In a controlled area of course :)

B1Gdave
12-May-2011, 06:37 AM
I dont argue I just mutter yes and no and agree, I hate arguing its a waste of oxygen I prefer to agree when I know im right than waste time proving it.

It is unfortunate that 99% of the publicity is bad but then NO copper should shoot or tazer innocent people, local to me armed police busted through a flat door and shot a naked man in his bed, it was later discovered they got the wrong flat. The family are still trying to seek justice for this murder.

I could be here all night writing bad stories about police brutality and probably a few incidences of good behavior, but I think the public has made its mind up and its up to the police to make us all change our views, maybe some etiquette courses instead of how to restrain and immobilize people would help, but for now I refuse to pi55 on one while their on fire.



I'm sorry, but if you're talking about this video, how do you know this man is innocent? You don't know any more about this situation than what you can see, and there is going to be more to it than that.



it seems that you are indeed a police officer and a disgruntled one at that.

police do get bad press and thats mainly because bad press is good press, however, its seems we have all had our bad experience's where the ploice are concerened, i know i have but equaly i have had good experiences with the police.

it bothers me that you keep trying defend the police even where it seems obvious there wrong, i watch the said video and i see 4 or 5 officers angry and going way over the top with 1 man who is clearly just a drunk, it seems the majority of the on lookers are shocked at whats going on as does the woman who try's to stop the officer punching the man in the face and the officer with the tazor just looks like he is having great time.



It's doesn't look good I know, I just can't help but feel there is going to be more to it than that. Where I work, the deployment of a tazer has to be authorised by the force duty inspector, so you can't just muck about with it, afterall, it is a firearm. If what happened there is literally say what you see, and they are just piling into a drunk, then I hope there is/was an investigation and those responsible are held to account. I strongly believe that those holding the office of constable should be whiter than white. Doesn't mean you can't make mistakes, but you should be accountable for your actions, and if it's not right, don't do it! Transparency and accountability are incredibly necessary in modern day policing, in my humble opinion.
I just get frustrated and annoyed with people that come out with ridiculous comments, tarring us all with the nobhead brush. It's a shame that people lack the education to see how things really work.

gorehound
12-May-2011, 08:26 AM
Dave you also need to remember tho that although police officers do try and do a good job and some do put their lives on the line, they know exactly what they are getting into before they join and it's part of the job, just as was myself in the army when I served in Kosovo, Bosnia and Iraq.

There are some decent police officers out there and also alot that just pick up their pay each month and don't give a [****] about the job or the role they are supposed to be doing.

Served in N.I, Germany, Cyprus, and a brief stint in Saudi during GW1, and stupidly decided that I hadn't given enough to society and joined the dibble. I don't mind risking my life for just cause, but not for eejuts who put themselves in harms way through stupidity or carelessness.

To be fair, as a car driver, motorcyclist, and a keen leisure and professionally trained cyclist, I can confirm there are legions of cyclists out there who don't give a **** about they way they ride and how that affects their own safety and other road users. We need to get our own house in order before we can start sniping at other groups.

I wasn't present, so can not comment on chummy's scenario, and if we're being really balanced the officer that was present isn't here to describe what they saw. What I can say is hazard perception and risk management is a basic part of what I teach, and the situation as described could have been deftly avoided if chummy had been perpetually asking himself "what if? what if?..."

"Right of way" etc is all well and good, but is small consolation to your family when you're dead. I've dealt with many RTA's involving cyclists, and a noteworthy proportion scream "THEY WERE IN THE WRONG, IT WAS MY RIGHT OF WAY" was they're being stretchered off, as if that's going to make the bones heal any quicker. Right of way etc isn't like Batfinks wings of steel, and is utterly meaningless when it comes to survival.

We should all be riding the road EXPECTING that sort of thing to happen, not being surprised when it does, and that's how we live to old age and our off-road wheelchairs with DT Swiss wheels!



Words every cyclist should take heed of.

greeneye
12-May-2011, 06:55 PM
I dont argue I just mutter yes and no and agree, I hate arguing its a waste of oxygen I prefer to agree when I know im right than waste time proving it.

It is unfortunate that 99% of the publicity is bad but then NO copper should shoot or tazer innocent people, local to me armed police busted through a flat door and shot a naked man in his bed, it was later discovered they got the wrong flat. The family are still trying to seek justice for this murder.

I could be here all night writing bad stories about police brutality and probably a few incidences of good behavior, but I think the public has made its mind up and its up to the police to make us all change our views, maybe some etiquette courses instead of how to restrain and immobilize people would help, but for now I refuse to pi55 on one while their on fire.



I'm sorry, but if you're talking about this video, how do you know this man is innocent? You don't know any more about this situation than what you can see, and there is going to be more to it than that.



it seems that you are indeed a police officer and a disgruntled one at that.

police do get bad press and thats mainly because bad press is good press, however, its seems we have all had our bad experience's where the ploice are concerened, i know i have but equaly i have had good experiences with the police.

it bothers me that you keep trying defend the police even where it seems obvious there wrong, i watch the said video and i see 4 or 5 officers angry and going way over the top with 1 man who is clearly just a drunk, it seems the majority of the on lookers are shocked at whats going on as does the woman who try's to stop the officer punching the man in the face and the officer with the tazor just looks like he is having great time.



It's doesn't look good I know, I just can't help but feel there is going to be more to it than that. Where I work, the deployment of a tazer has to be authorised by the force duty inspector, so you can't just muck about with it, afterall, it is a firearm. If what happened there is literally say what you see, and they are just piling into a drunk, then I hope there is/was an investigation and those responsible are held to account. I strongly believe that those holding the office of constable should be whiter than white. Doesn't mean you can't make mistakes, but you should be accountable for your actions, and if it's not right, don't do it! Transparency and accountability are incredibly necessary in modern day policing, in my humble opinion.
I just get frustrated and annoyed with people that come out with ridiculous comments, tarring us all with the nobhead brush. It's a shame that people lack the education to see how things really work.




fair enough dave.

my stupid son got brought home by the police a while back, we all sat in the sitting room and the officer was fantastic, he couldn't have been older than 25 yet he got through to my son better than i could have which also made my job a lot easier once the officer had left.

brilliant :) :)

B1Gdave
12-May-2011, 08:57 PM
It's nice to hear you've had a good experience, us young ones usually get even more stick I swear!! Still, let's probably get back to MTBing eh?! Haha

greeneye
12-May-2011, 10:03 PM
okay here's a question you might be able to answere.

iv'e seen a few police officer's on mtn bikes. is that something an officer would train for or is it a short straw kinda thing??

B1Gdave
12-May-2011, 10:30 PM
I'm sure you won't be surprised to know that there is a course for that, one I've been waiting two years for! Even tho I can more than competently ride a bike!! Haha
The bikes in my force aren't much cop (pardon the pun!!) the frames are made by smith and wesson and weigh a ton, rockshox J4 forks (circa 2006!) they do run a deore groupset tho.

greeneye
12-May-2011, 10:39 PM
not supprised at all mate, there is course for everything these days, its only a matter of time before there is a course to train you the best way to take a course.

so what happens if you do get to do the course??? will you be perminantly on the bike or just for an 'x' amount of time? also cant you use your own bike??

TheBaron38
12-May-2011, 11:07 PM
To all you polie haters on this forum ask yourself this. What have you done for society and your country? I suspect in some cases not alot. As a serving officer my colleagues and I take pride in being as fair as possible. With the amount of cctv and phones with cameras to beat someone or tazer would be stupid as we could lose our job and go to prison. We have to put up with violent drunks hell bent on ruining your night out. Spit,punches and threats to our families are the norm. What would you do when confronted with a violent drunk who does not want to get arrested ? Please dont judge us all on ill informed opinions as I could do the same.

fredmundo
13-May-2011, 05:34 AM
Wow, we have a few members out the police here then.


Dave, you want s weird with fartblood about getting one course, he teaches it I think.

B1Gdave
13-May-2011, 07:02 AM
You just get the option then to use it, I think you have to do a certain amount of miles a year, its not an awful lot tho. And I wish I could use my own bike, we have to stick with the ones we're given tho :( they're a valuable tool I think.

Monte
13-May-2011, 07:07 AM
mmm shame you dont get custom bikes with xx groupsets :D

fredmundo
13-May-2011, 07:39 AM
Bling police bikes would be nice for the riders but create real problems.

First the public outcry at the police spending several thousand on each bike. People look at me with disbelief when they hear how much its spent on a really nice bike.... Unfortunately when it comes to public spending then you can't 'treat yourself'.

The other is that people will stage incidents to get bikes to turn up and get the officer off their bike so that a friend can jump on and make a get away on the bike.

I have to say that I really like the police mtb thing. It gives them speed that officers on got lack, but keeps just about all the agility the officers on foot have.

I think it would be good if the different forces combined buying power and negotiated with a uk bike manufacturer a police spec.... you could then see a special edition for the public with the old jam sandwich paint job that you don't see any more.

B1Gdave
13-May-2011, 08:25 AM
I like this idea of some kind of collaboration, keeping it UK they could use hope parts too, in a special colour like Team Green, only maybe plod purple or woodentop white!

But youre right,I know an awful lot of people that would do whatever they could to get there hands on one!

Still, I can always dream....

fredmundo
13-May-2011, 09:33 AM
Yup a nice hardwearing (slx bits spring to mind) specced p7 or similar with some sektor forks would certainly put the Pee back in po-leese.... they already do a 'pure 7'.

B1Gdave
13-May-2011, 11:28 AM
I am 100% with you on that, maybe it should be taken to the fed... I don't think they can argue really :D haha

MTBLeague
13-May-2011, 11:37 AM
Think you may find this article intresting, it does mention the smith & Weston bikes along with many others.

http://www.daveches.co.uk/analysis/bikes

It is a good way of re-connecting with the public and chaseing down the bad element. I have commonly seen them at large public events where there is a lot of ground to cover.

http://www.daveches.co.uk/analysis/bikes-images/bike5.jpg

B1Gdave
13-May-2011, 11:53 AM
Ahh, good work! Santa Cruz Chameleons in West Mercia? then where on earth is mine?! I have only ever seen smith and wessons, and of those, i have seen about three with snapped frames, mostly snapped chain stays and one or two old specialised bikes with rohloff hubs with I'll take a santa cruz or P7 P-lease :D

Fartblood
13-May-2011, 12:48 PM
okay here's a question you might be able to answere.

iv'e seen a few police officer's on mtn bikes. is that something an officer would train for or is it a short straw kinda thing??

On the Forces with specialist cycle patrol units, it is a very sought after role, and hard to get into.

In the case of my own Farce it's mainly community PC's and PCSO's, and it's very popular.

In the main we use Giants, but there are some others thrown into the mix (my personal steed is a Claud Butler Cape Wrath D27), but in our case they're standardising the fleet and all future purchases will be Spesh hardrock Discs with police kit and livery off the shelf.

At least half our farces bikes, including my own, are either donated or paid for by partner organisations, such as parish councils, residents associations, sometimes local businesses. Some folk balk at the cost, but my 700 Claud is about the minimum that is usuable - decent on and off road, durable, reliable and comfy. Anything less will likely fall apart right quick, or just be plain useless. The alternative to walk for most of these officers, so it's embraced!

Our Farce is too small to sustain a dedicated unit like West Mids, Hampshire or CoL, but I've done out of farce training with others and it's nice to see the different kit and methods, bit if a willy wagging thing.

fredmundo
13-May-2011, 02:06 PM
Happy to see my county standardising on SC chameleons.

Top draw.

alibali65
15-May-2011, 06:55 AM
Ditto with what fartblood said, although our farce due to cutbacks probably won't be getting anymore bikes. The last lot we bought cost a lot less than 700.

Maybe their procurement section should get their fingers out!